tondemarsh's Blog

I just thought I would bring a couple of things to your attention:

i. When we are posting new topics on the Forum, let’s try to avoid duplication by posting the same topic under two (or more) different sections. We do not want anyone to miss out on important and uplifting replies or posts only because a topic is being discussed in two (or more) separate sections of the Forum at the same time.

ii. Let’s try as much as we can to use private messaging on the Forum to air our concerns, to make suggestions on the forum, and to get to know each other. By communicating with each other, we will make the Forum better organize and turn it into a warm and welcoming place that will attract those who might be thinking of joining us.

iii. We will be constantly doing a bit of house keeping on the Forum. You will notice that a few topics will be moved around to categories where we think they are best suited to be. Please note that no category is more important than the other. We just want to make sure our forum is tidy and people can find their way around it with relative ease.

Any questions or queries are welcome. Thank you for your understanding.

Ingz, I think I’d sum up being an Adventist as being part of a community of believers who are waiting for Jesus’ second coming holding fast to God’s word, the law and the testimony.  

I take it by rules you are referring to something other than the 10 commandments (please correct me if I’m wrong). If my understanding is correct, then we are fast becoming modern day Pharisees. The Israelites who came back from captivity after the first temple was destroyed by the Babylonians were determined not to repeat the mistakes of their forefathers (rebelling against God and breaking His commandments).  They feared that if they rebelled once more, God would send them back into captivity and allow the second temple Nehemiah built to be destroyed. To guard against that, they supplemented God’s law with their own rules (man-made standards) as a way of making sure that every aspect of their lives was in sync with God’s law. For example, they said carrying a handkerchief was doing work on the Sabbath; for you to carry one, you had to stitch it to your clothes so that they become one garment. Also, you could only travel a certain number of miles (kilometers) and anything above that was considered to be working. (Tindo is an expert in that field; he can give you more examples). 

The Pharisees considered themselves the moral standard and tried as much as they could to keep each one of those rules.  However, there were so many rules that they became a stumbling block for the ordinary Israelite. Jesus addressed and rejected these man-made rules during his ministry. For example, He healed on the Sabbath (Matthew 12: 9-14), mingled with tax collectors and “sinners” who were considered unclean (Matthew 9: 10, 11) and His disciples picked heads of grain and ate them without washing their hands (Matthew 12: 1, 2). 

As I said above, by setting rules of our own (man-made standards), we are fast becoming modern day Pharisees and just putting stumbling blocks in other people’s paths to salvation. And, what usually happens is that if someone does not conform to the standards we set, we are quick to condemn and judge them. 

I, personally, think that Christianity, generally, is a way of life, just as it is a relationship we have with God. I also strongly believe that although we are a community of believers, what really matters is our relationship with God as individuals (we are not saved as a community). As that relationship grows, God will impress on our minds the standards that He (not anyone else) wishes us to follow in our lives. Although some of the so-called rules are beneficial, for example, to our health, they are not the standard by which we shall be saved. 

After had been criticized by the Pharisees for breaking the rules (when Jesus had dined at Matthew’s house with tax collectors and “sinners” and Jesus’ disciples had eaten with unwashed hands) Jesus quoted Hosea 6: 6 and instructed the Pharisees saying “But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners" (Matthew 9: 10-13; 12: 7). I really think that as Adventists, it’s high time we learn what God means when he says, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'

And to believe that God was saying this of a man who once committed adultery, a man who had murdered Uriah the Hittite, an innocent man, to cover up his own sin and to take Uriah's wife when David had six wives already!!! What I like about this is that God sees us, not as we are, but as we can be. If God can call David "a man after my own heart", after David had sinned like that, I have hope too that I, sinful as I am, can be a man after God's heart. Also, God is a God of 2nd chances. It just begins with true repentence, as David did.

Thank you for the post Ingz

I have a different take on the issue. Without taking away from anything that you guys have mentioned (I am also an Obama supporter by the way), I think, as Christians we may be losing focus of the most important issue that we should be concerned with.

The issue of President-Elect Obama being the anti-Christ has been one of the hottest issues since he started running for president. Chief amongst the culprits responsible for bringing it up are the Protestants (many of whom wanted to use it to drum up support for the Republican Party). Although I believe and that we should be students of the bible, particularly the books of Daniel and Revelation (because they apply to us), the issue/question that I consider more important is: where does our relationship with Christ stand. When Christ comes, will we be commended for pinpointing exactly who (or what) was the anti-Christ or the issue will be how we stand in the eyes of God?

I think there are some amongst us (Christians in general) who are waiting for a particular point and time for them to fully commit to God. The disciples where also curious to know "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24: 3), Jesus’ answer to them was[W]atch out that no one deceives you.” (verse 4). He goes on to give a litany of signs of His coming telling them that when they see all these things happen they should know that He is near, right at the door (verse 33). If we should learn anything from that it is this: the prophecy regarding the anti-Christ is just one of the many signs of the second coming of Jesus. We should not dwell upon it as if it will be the arbiter of whether we shall be saved or not.

In the parable of the 10 virgins (Matthew 25), the deciding issue was who, among the ten, was prepared for the coming of the bride groom. In the parable of the Talents, the disciples who were commended had used/invested the gifts they were given and brought in more for their master. In the parable of the sheep and the goats, the sheep are honoured for the service they rendered to their fellow brethren. These are the things that God values the most and the ones that we should work on if we are to be prepared when Jesus comes.

The devil is delighted when we focus on contentious issues and forget that at the end of it all we have to be in the right with God; that we should instead worry if our sins are cleansed and forgiven and whether we have been clothed with Jesus’ righteousness. The devil has nothing to lose if we dwell on such issues just as much as Peter focused on the raging waves around him and lost sight of the most important thing that he should have been focusing on: Jesus. As Jesus said, “[W]atch that no one deceives you”.

“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns” (Matthew 24: 45, 46).

 Sorry guys for taking so long to reply.  

I liked the defining word that Gorge Hermes used in the quote Tindo submitted above: “positive doubt”. That implies that there is something called “negative doubt”. That is food for thought. I agree that doubt was, for Thomas, the path towards deeper, religious faith. He could not blindly accept what he did not understand but once he looked at Jesus’ scars and touched his pierced side, HALLELUIAH, he never doubted again. That’s why he said “My Lord and My God” afterwards. That is an important statement because in one sentence he acknowledges Jesus as God and that he is a slave for Christ. Although he is blamed for his lack of faith, I think we should thank him for his skepticism because this was an occasion that assures us as Christians of the divinity of Jesus and that He actually rose from the dead. Had it not been for Thomas, we would have been debating whether the Jesus who was nailed on the cross is the same person who rose three days later. Thomas touched Jesus for us and assured us Jesus and His death and resurrections are facts that we do not have to question.

Also remember Thomas was impulsive enough to offer to die with Jesus on the way to Bethany, but dubious both about where Christ was going and the way there (John 11: 16 and 14: 5). Like the other disciples, he struggled to understand the true nature of Christ’s ministry. That probably explains his doubt. He is no different from Peter and the rest of the disciples who, when they were told by the women who had gone to Jesus’ tom that His body was missing, did not believe. Luke 24: 9-12. Verse 11 actually says “[B]ut they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.” Peter ran to the tomb but went away wondering to himself what had happened (Verse 12). The only advantage the other disciples had over Thomas was that they saw Jesus before Thomas did (Thomas was not there when they first saw Him).  So I think we should try to look at Doubting Thomas as Thomas the Believer because he represents each and every one of us.

Church traditions say that Thomas was perhaps the only Apostle who went outside the Roman Empire for preaching Holy Gospel and the one who spanned the largest area, which includes Persia, India and China.(Source Wikipedia: Thomas the Apostle). They also say that The Apostle Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church there. From being someone who was impulsive and “blindly” following Jesus to someone who was honest and open about his doubts, Thomas, after his confession, became one of his most effective witness and was faithful unto death, even death so far away from the place he grew up calling home. Talk about amazing transformation.  So Tindo, I agree that doubt, as a path towards (deeper) religious faith, lies at the heart of the story Saint Thomas the Apostle. The lesson to be learnt and indeed the question to be asked is “How do we deal with our doubt?” 

Tindo, I responded to your post before I came this side but I forgot to post the response. I'll work on something and post it today.

This is just a muted question that was clamouring to be asked as I was visiting some friends. Should we really be concerned?

Thank you guys for the enthusiastic response. I haven't read Robert Davidson book myself. I was watching a DVD where a pastor (Dr. Laurence Turner), after preaching a sermon on Jeremiah, sat with a panel that asked him questions relating to his message. That's where the quote came from.

I think for us to fully critique Robert Davidson's quote we need to ask what the word "doubt" means. I looked up the definition in the Oxford Dictionary; Doubt means 1 uncertainty; undecided state of mind. 2 cynicism; feeling of disbelief. 3 uncertain state.I would understand and probably agree with Robert Davidson if we take doubt to mean uncertainty or undecided state of mind. However, if we take doubt to mean disbelief or cynicism, I would strongly disagree with the quote. As Dr. Turner puts it doubt is nothing more than asking questions about God. As he notes, the book of Jeremiah betrays the doubts Jeremiah had (the questions he had about God). Such questions, Turner says, strengthen our faith because they prompt us to search for answers where none seem to be available to us. I think that analysis fits in with the description of doubt as uncertainty or undecided state of mind. The point being that doubt is a catalyst to giving us the thirst to learn more about God. The opposite, I think, is blind faith where one just believes for the sake of believing. God has not called us to blindly follow Him; He calls on us to have objective faith, a faith that can stand test, trials and tribulation. I think that kind of faith evolves from questions about God that moves us to seek to know Him better. The more we know Him the more our faith takes root.

The examples you gave are well and good but have you noticed that there was something special about the positions occupied by the people you mentioned; Zacharias was a Priest and Thomas was a disciple. You would expect them to have had a more intimate knowledge of God and his dealings with his people than the average person. I think what they manifested was disbelief. The angel told Zacharias he’d be dumb,”…because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.” Luke 1:20. Zacharias asked for a sign confirming that these things shall be and, I believe, continued with his questions despite the fact that an Angel stood before him (also note that he was in the temple at the time performing his duties). I think the same can be said of Thomas; he persisted with his questions in spite of Jesus having told them that He would rise again and the fact that Jesus was standing there in front of him. That’s why Jesus invited Thomas to put his finger where Jesus was pierced with a spear and to look at Jesus’ hands. He had reason to be uncertain at first because when Jesus first appeared to his disciples Thomas was not there (Luke 20:24). When Jesus appeared to them all the second time Thomas still had questions until Jesus had to ask Thomas to touch and look at Him. That is why Jesus called him "faithless". Doubting Thomas is a phrase that we coined ourselves that does not appear in the Bible. I think there is a lesson to be learnt as to why the bible says “And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them…” (Luke 20:26).While it seems redundant for the bible to mention the disciples and then Thomas, I believe there is a lesson we need to draw from there. (Compare with Mark 16:7; I have a sermon entitled “And Peter Also” that I’ll share with you when I come. It just explains this style that appears at first glance to be just redundancy). Peter’s account has much to do with fear, pride and losing focus of the One who had called him to walk on the water than doubt.

Compare Mary’s response to that of Zacharias. Once it became apparent to her that an Angel of the Lord had brought good tidings, she believes and gives a response that is pregnant with lessons.(I'll post Phillip Yancey's take on Mary's response and the fear that she felt when the Angel appreared to her). I think God dealt sternly with disbelief when there was ample evidence for one to be able to base his faith on and believe.

I think this is turning out to be an interesting discussion.

Robert Davidson in his book The Courage to Doubt says Doubt is not the opposite of faith; Doubt is faith.  Is doubt the opposite of faith or they are just the same thing? Is it ok to doubt?

Review and Herald, Oct. 30, 1888

We must have the spirit of supplication to God. The enemy holds many of you from prayer, by telling you that you do not feel your prayers, and that you would better wait until you realize more of the spirit of intercession, lest your prayers should be a mockery. But you must say to Satan, "It is written" that "men ought always to pray, and not to faint." . . .

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Feb. 30, 1900

PRAYER to the Great Physician for the healing of the soul brings the blessing of God. PRAYER unites us one to another and to God. PRAYER brings Jesus to our side, and gives new strength and fresh grace to the fainting, perplexed soul...

A Humble God: Lessons from the birth of Jesus

Philippians 2:5-8 KJV says:

 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

I’ve always wondered what it really means to have the mind “which was also in Christ Jesus.” The following passage from Phillip Yancey’s book, The Jesus I never knew, has set me on the path to understanding what Paul meant:

“Before Jesus, almost no pagan author has used (the word) “humble” as a compliment. Yet the events of Christmas point inescapably to what seems like an oxymoron: a humble God. The God who came to earth came not in a raging whirlwind nor (sic) in a devouring fire. Unimaginably, the Maker of all things shrank down, down, down, so small as to become an ovum, a single fertilised egg barely visible to the naked eye, an egg that would divide and redivide until a fetus (sic) took shape, enlarging cell by cell inside a nervous teenager. “Immensity cloistered in thy dear womb,” marvelled the poet John Donne. He “made himself nothing…he humbled himself,” said the apostle Paul prosaically.

“That God is little, that is the truth which Jesus taught man.” The God who roared, who could order armies and empires like pawns on a chessboard, this God emerged in Palestine as a baby who could not speak or eat solid food or control his bladder, who depended on a teenager for shelter, food, and love.” Phillip Yancey: The Jesus I never knew, page 36

All this for a sinner like me: Amazing Grace.

Here is a snipet from The Jesus I never knew: Phillip Yancey, page 23

"The more I studied Jesus, the more difficult it became to pigeon-hole him. He said little about the Roman occupation, the main topic of conversation among his countryman, and yet he took a whip to drive petty profiteers from the Jewish temple. He urged obedience to the Mosaic law while acquiring the reputation as a lawbreaker. He could be stabbed by sympathy for a stranger, yet turn on his best friend with the flinty rebuke, “Get behind me Satan!” He had uncompromising views on the rich men and loose women, yet both types enjoyed his company.
One say miracles seemed to flow out of Jesus; the next day his power was blocked by people’s lack of faith. One day he talked in detail of the Second Coming; another, he knew neither the day nor the hour. He fled from arrest at one point and marched inexorably toward it at another. He spoke eloquently about peacemaking, then told his disciples to procure swords. His extravagant claims about himself kept him at the center of controversy, but when he did something truly miraculous he tended to hush it up. As Walter Wink has said, if Jesus had never lived, we would no have been able to invent him."