Lefora Free Forum
34 views

Is it ok to doubt?

Page 1
posts 1–12 of 12
novice - moderator
23 posts

Robert Davidson in his book The Courage to Doubt says Doubt is not the opposite of faith; Doubt is faith.  Is doubt the opposite of faith or they are just the same thing? Is it ok to doubt?

__________________
Tonde
regular - founder
60 posts

Thats a good one Mr Tonde.im not sure if i agree with Mr Davidson,maybe i dont understand.we had a discussion along those lines.we came up with many and different explanations of the word 'doubt'.for now i'l say compare Zechariah and Mary when they got the news of the births of Jesus and John.we have to understand how both of the reacted or rather responded, why did they respond in that way.can we apply the word 'doubt' to Zechariah or to Mary if 'doubt is faith' as Mr. Davidson writes.having said that, we cant deliberate on the issue of doubt with one incident only.the Scriptures are rich and im sure there's more to be learnt.as for now that is all i know. Again i'd also have to read or understand why Mr. Davidson writes so for me to agree or disagree (with him). Grace to you.

__________________
Tindo
regular - founder
60 posts

Tonde another point to note; is it because of doubt that Peter found himself sinking while walking on water? Why is Thomas famously known as the 'doubting' Thomas, even way beyond the borders of Christedom?grace!

__________________
Tindo
novice - moderator
26 posts

interesting question indeed & i think the issue of doubt will remain an issue to be seriously discussed even in times to come.
maybe one way we can help ourselves understand doubt in the christian perspective is to try & understand exactly what Faith is.the writer of Hebrews says Faith is the substance of things hoped for & the evidence of things not seen.
in other words,God is calling us to have this non-tangible substance as something that wil make us have hope & at the same time,it will act as evidence for things we cant see.so having total trust in the fact that their is a God who lives & reigns even though we havent seen him is at the core of Faith.
In my opinion,what doubt does is it comes and crushes that very trust in the fact that God is.like tendo mentioned,zachariah trusted in God his whole life but when it came to the idea of bearing a child at that age,he didnt have enough 'substance' to hope for such.instead,he doubted.that doubt thereby destroyed the evidence(faith) he had within him of a God whose more than able.
so i'd like to understand were Mr.Davidson is coming from with his statement but i think doubt is indeed against the very nature of faith

__________________
J@me$
novice - moderator
26 posts

pi might want to ask a question though,can doubt & fear be put in the same category?its clear that in scripture,God dealt quite sternly with pple who expressed doubt(zechariah,peter,thomas).wud he do the same in case of fear?when the angel appeared to mary with his message to her,she was filled with fear but she ended up saying,let it be unto me as u will.so does fear show unfaithfulness or not?

__________________
J@me$
novice - moderator
23 posts

Thank you guys for the enthusiastic response. I haven't read Robert Davidson book myself. I was watching a DVD where a pastor (Dr. Laurence Turner), after preaching a sermon on Jeremiah, sat with a panel that asked him questions relating to his message. That's where the quote came from.


I think for us to fully critique Robert Davidson's quote we need to ask what the word "doubt" means. I looked up the definition in the Oxford Dictionary; Doubt means 1 uncertainty; undecided state of mind. 2 cynicism; feeling of disbelief. 3 uncertain state.I would understand and probably agree with Robert Davidson if we take doubt to mean uncertainty or undecided state of mind. However, if we take doubt to mean disbelief or cynicism, I would strongly disagree with the quote. As Dr. Turner puts it doubt is nothing more than asking questions about God. As he notes, the book of Jeremiah betrays the doubts Jeremiah had (the questions he had about God). Such questions, Turner says, strengthen our faith because they prompt us to search for answers where none seem to be available to us. I think that analysis fits in with the description of doubt as uncertainty or undecided state of mind. The point being that doubt is a catalyst to giving us the thirst to learn more about God. The opposite, I think, is blind faith where one just believes for the sake of believing. God has not called us to blindly follow Him; He calls on us to have objective faith, a faith that can stand test, trials and tribulation. I think that kind of faith evolves from questions about God that moves us to seek to know Him better. The more we know Him the more our faith takes root.


The examples you gave are well and good but have you noticed that there was something special about the positions occupied by the people you mentioned; Zacharias was a Priest and Thomas was a disciple. You would expect them to have had a more intimate knowledge of God and his dealings with his people than the average person. I think what they manifested was disbelief. The angel told Zacharias he’d be dumb,”…because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.” Luke 1:20. Zacharias asked for a sign confirming that these things shall be and, I believe, continued with his questions despite the fact that an Angel stood before him (also note that he was in the temple at the time performing his duties). I think the same can be said of Thomas; he persisted with his questions in spite of Jesus having told them that He would rise again and the fact that Jesus was standing there in front of him. That’s why Jesus invited Thomas to put his finger where Jesus was pierced with a spear and to look at Jesus’ hands. He had reason to be uncertain at first because when Jesus first appeared to his disciples Thomas was not there (Luke 20:24). When Jesus appeared to them all the second time Thomas still had questions until Jesus had to ask Thomas to touch and look at Him. That is why Jesus called him "faithless". Doubting Thomas is a phrase that we coined ourselves that does not appear in the Bible. I think there is a lesson to be learnt as to why the bible says “And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them…” (Luke 20:26).While it seems redundant for the bible to mention the disciples and then Thomas, I believe there is a lesson we need to draw from there. (Compare with Mark 16:7; I have a sermon entitled “And Peter Also” that I’ll share with you when I come. It just explains this style that appears at first glance to be just redundancy). Peter’s account has much to do with fear, pride and losing focus of the One who had called him to walk on the water than doubt.


Compare Mary’s response to that of Zacharias. Once it became apparent to her that an Angel of the Lord had brought good tidings, she believes and gives a response that is pregnant with lessons.(I'll post Phillip Yancey's take on Mary's response and the fear that she felt when the Angel appreared to her). I think God dealt sternly with disbelief when there was ample evidence for one to be able to base his faith on and believe.


I think this is turning out to be an interesting discussion.

__________________
Tonde
regular - founder
60 posts

Well well,i can sense this urge within me to learn more, thank God and thanks guys.
Tonde i like that one, thats why i sent you to school:-)!
Anyways here is something; "the starting point and chief principle of every science, and hence of theology also, is not only methodical doubt, but positive doubt.one can believe only what one has percieved to be true from reasonable grounds, and consequently one must have the courage to continue doubting until one has found reliable grounds to satisfy the reason"(George Hermes).
Doubt as a path towards (deeper) religious faith lies at the heart of the story Saint Thomas the Apostole. ('Schulte Karl Joseph../1910/."George Hermes" the Catholic Encyclopedia 7.
Tonde i almost understand your post.i looked up the word doubt in an encyclopedia and i got the info above (the definition i'l post just now).
I really understand how you explained about Thomas but whats your take on the statement i just posted.it seems the writer implies Thomas' doubting is '..a path towards deeper religious faith..'
Grace

__________________
Tindo
regular - founder
60 posts

I am really exhausting all i have to be patient.can someone say something on doubt.i'd really like it if Tonde would get back to me.grace

__________________
Tindo
novice - moderator
23 posts

Tindo, I responded to your post before I came this side but I forgot to post the response. I'll work on something and post it today.

__________________
Tonde
regular - founder
60 posts

Tonde,im waiting...
i also think everyone should throw in a word or two on this issue of doubt.James whats your take on my last post on doubt..grace

__________________
Tindo
novice - moderator
23 posts

 Sorry guys for taking so long to reply.  

 

I liked the defining word that Gorge Hermes used in the quote Tindo submitted above: “positive doubt”. That implies that there is something called “negative doubt”. That is food for thought. I agree that doubt was, for Thomas, the path towards deeper, religious faith. He could not blindly accept what he did not understand but once he looked at Jesus’ scars and touched his pierced side, HALLELUIAH, he never doubted again. That’s why he said “My Lord and My God” afterwards. That is an important statement because in one sentence he acknowledges Jesus as God and that he is a slave for Christ. Although he is blamed for his lack of faith, I think we should thank him for his skepticism because this was an occasion that assures us as Christians of the divinity of Jesus and that He actually rose from the dead. Had it not been for Thomas, we would have been debating whether the Jesus who was nailed on the cross is the same person who rose three days later. Thomas touched Jesus for us and assured us Jesus and His death and resurrections are facts that we do not have to question.

 

Also remember Thomas was impulsive enough to offer to die with Jesus on the way to Bethany, but dubious both about where Christ was going and the way there (John 11: 16 and 14: 5). Like the other disciples, he struggled to understand the true nature of Christ’s ministry. That probably explains his doubt. He is no different from Peter and the rest of the disciples who, when they were told by the women who had gone to Jesus’ tom that His body was missing, did not believe. Luke 24: 9-12. Verse 11 actually says “[B]ut they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.” Peter ran to the tomb but went away wondering to himself what had happened (Verse 12). The only advantage the other disciples had over Thomas was that they saw Jesus before Thomas did (Thomas was not there when they first saw Him).  So I think we should try to look at Doubting Thomas as Thomas the Believer because he represents each and every one of us.

 

Church traditions say that Thomas was perhaps the only Apostle who went outside the Roman Empire for preaching Holy Gospel and the one who spanned the largest area, which includes Persia, India and China.(Source Wikipedia: Thomas the Apostle). They also say that The Apostle Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church there. From being someone who was impulsive and “blindly” following Jesus to someone who was honest and open about his doubts, Thomas, after his confession, became one of his most effective witness and was faithful unto death, even death so far away from the place he grew up calling home. Talk about amazing transformation.  So Tindo, I agree that doubt, as a path towards (deeper) religious faith, lies at the heart of the story Saint Thomas the Apostle. The lesson to be learnt and indeed the question to be asked is “How do we deal with our doubt? 

 

__________________
Tonde
regular - founder
60 posts

so when we use the word 'doubt'can we talk of a single meaning or it has to be viewed from different perspectives.then for me it makes the whole thing complex.im not trying to much but we must try and go through every place where the word has been used in scriptures .Mr Tonde how do we deal with 'our' doubt. grace

__________________
Tindo
Page 1
posts 1–12 of 12

This Topic Is Locked To Guest Posts

It's been a while since this topic was active, if you'd like to get it going again, please post as a registered member

join now